Nigel writes:
what is the nature/cause of your disillusionment with Jiddu Krishnamurti’s teachings?
Good question. I’m not sure I have words yet to describe my disillusionment with Krishnamurti. I tried a bit a few years ago here:
Theosophy and Krishnamurti and (more recently) In the sky there is no distinction of ‘East’ and ‘West’…
In summary: while I feel Krishnamurti’s teachings were exactly what the TS needed at that time, stand alone they offer people (especially kids) in our time enormous risks. From an otherwordly perspective, where making a living and being adapted to society are unessential issues that may seem fine. But I’m not personally convinced it’s a good idea to say (roughly) social issues don’t matter - find the truth for yourself. What happens if a person successfully gets away from the image of society, but doesn’t attain peace of mind or whatever else one is supposed to get from K’s teachings? I’ve seen stuff like that in some young people. They take K at his word, instead of looking beyond the words to the truth he tries to teach (which really isn’t so bad).
The fact is: for theosophists K’s teachings aren’t a risk at all. We come packed with safeguards and K’s teachings are designed to get rid of precisely the risks theosophy as a spiritual path has:
- Too much reliance on theory
- Not looking at your life but at an image of your life
- Arrogance from thinking you are serving imaginary masters (imaginary to you at least as you’ve never met them - if that’s sentence seems to imply I did meet them, that was not my intention
)
But for non-theosophists his lack of reliance on day to day words and his avoidance of words that don’t seem to work (like Love) brings the reader or listener potentially at a point where there is an emptiness they aren’t ready for. Without the usual religious safeguards like moral precepts etc.
The problem I have with Jiddu Krishnamurti is the same problem I have with a lot of post-modern anti-guru’s. They break down but they don’t build up. For my generation some building up is needed - we grew up in a world full of broken down religions and world views.
This however does not imply I think Krishnamurti’s teachings are worthless. I obviously do think they have value. However they have their limitations and dangers. But then, what spiritual path doesn’t?
[In reply to some of the comments to this post, I have written 'Caring for beginners, a mistake?']
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11 Comments
The difficulty with building up is, who is getting built up? Is Krishnamurti, or any other teacher, supposed to shatter one illusion only to replace it with another?
It seems hard to take the journey alone because we want to be told, and have someone hold our hand. The hand holder is as confused as we are, if they weren’t, they wouldn’t take on the job.
We want to hang on to the illusions that comfort and lose the painful ones. It doesn’t work that way.
I do admire you for putting your stuff out there, being open and vulnerable.
You are nearing the gateof the timeless, step through.
Are you saying it would be healthy if nobody tried explaining their path to anybody else? To just let it be and not care about others? That’s not a path I am capable of taking, and I don’t see that as a problem.
I didn’t mention building up anybody, did I?
As for ‘the timeless’ I do feel the timeless (or something that fits that description) as I write this- but so what?
Hello K,
Enjoy reading your thoughts. If there was some dissillusionment with Jiddu Krishnamurti have a peek at another Krishnamurti. UG. at http://www.spiritualteachers.org/u_g_krishnamurti.htm
Actually enjoyed UG, lol.
best wishes to you : )
I know about UG. But my problems with Jiddu Krishnamurti are not different from those with UG, except of course that UG doesn’t seem to add anything positive. Compared to him, Jiddu Krishnamurti is quite balanced. http://www.squidoo.com/krishnamurti
err … I am no authority … but have listened to Krishnamurti … and methinks what he says (at least that is what I understood) is that one has to forget the ’self’ and all that breeds (?) … comes from (?) the self … and when one achieves this state … of true selflessness one cannot go wrong. So if I see everyone as an extension of myself … or my being, why would I ever hurt anyone?
And even though some people including children may misunderstand him … it is because we are so conditioned … by our society, culture … self … that we are never going to get it anyway.
Hi Saurabh,
The problem is: what if Krishnamurti does more harm than good? What if while trying to show people that true selflessness, what he is creating in them is actually more selfishness?
Whether beginners are practicing virtues or not is their problem not yours. Believe in no teachers, trust your own logic, your own experiences, make your own mistakes, learn and grow. Have a courageous attitude and be inwardly prepared to die.
I do think a spiritual teacher like Jiddu Krishnamurti should take that sort of thing into account. And I care whether it is reasonable to advise his work to people or not - that IS my responsibility.
I was reading K’s books when I was 15. I took him quite litteraly back then. But he struck a chord somewhere very deep. I forgot about him for about 20 years or so. But then I was touched so profoundly, that it will not ever leave me again.
Misunderstanding is in the nature of words, and to communicate also K uses words, though in a rather peculiar way.
Why worry for others mistakes. If we are really responsible, there is only one way: enquire your mind. Not talk about what others have written or said. And that’s not always a pleasant journey…
I am not disapointed in K, I say thank you Sir! Your life was a statement.
I will study you and go ahead, working hard day by day.
I have never found a person to be clearer than K. K left the Theosophist Society for a reason, he said “Truth is pathless for a reason” I have yet to read among the thousands of responses to K’s writings or teachings anything as clear in words, yet people naturally question it and they should. His teaching is poison to some who do not understand. It is very easy to misunderstand his teaching. I still do. When that very rare soul actually speaks truth very very few if anyone else understands, not fully. He’s talking about a complete revolution in our thinking that is needed, about having to have an extraordinary courage to not only look serious but to actually see, not just see, be what is. Actually we already are but not fully of the mind. He doesn’t say don’t be you, I, ego, he says to step behind that thinking and see you, I and the rest at once. But if he can’t convince anyone of truth, no one can, and he essentially says that too. Don’t look at him or his teaching, look to self, look within and look beyond but look seriously. This is quite a challenge. Till we stop fighting it, it wont happen.
Tobias
To have disillusionment with k is to have it with self, for it’s just another separation between self and what is.