<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Will, diet, renunciation and religion</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/will-diet-renunciation/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/will-diet-renunciation/</link>
	<description>Considering life, spiritual growth and more ponderings</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:37:30 -0500</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/will-diet-renunciation/comment-page-1/#comment-600</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:37:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=658#comment-600</guid>
		<description>Thank you very much for that correction.  It&#039;s been many, many years since encountering the word and was unable to find it.

The thought in the comment from the Dalai Lama, is echoed in the words of Paramahansa Yogananda:

&quot;Thus we see that though the true aim of mankind is the avoidance of pain and the attainment of Bliss, yet owing to a fatal error man, through trying to avoid pain, pursues a deluded something named pleasure, mistaking it for Bliss.  That the attainment of Bliss and not pleasure is the universal and highest necessity is indirectly proved by the fact that man is never satisfied with one object of pleasure.....And so he is constantly falling into pain, even though he wishes to avoid it by the adoption of what he deems proper means.  Yet an unknown and unsatisfied craving seems ever to remain in his heart.&quot;

Regarding delayed gratification.  Perhaps the words in the previous comment were not written clearly (one certainly wasn&#039;t ;^).  Of course there can be no wisdom in delayed gratification if it thought of as an end in itself.  In such a case, it is just a formalized ritual consisting of bouts of repression.  Afterwards the desire is just as likely to be even stronger as a result of the delay.

The intention is not merely to pretend to be good by denial.
The thought is this.  If that which prevents gnosis is the ego&#039;s false image that we are separate and disconnected from the universe, then we enhance the experience of separation by clinging to that false image.

It that is taken as true, then is it not worthwhile to observe and examine and alter the ego&#039;s influence?  And, will we not discover that the ego desires things and conditions which provide it with the sense of security, affirmation and belonging -- relative to the manifest world?  (Is it not from the ego&#039;s selfish point of view that selfish actions arise?)

If that is found to be the case, then Self-imposed delay of gratification can be viewed as a tool of exerting control over the ego -- prior to the work of reprogramming (by replacing the false views through study, introspection and meditation).

Hopefully, this clarifies the previous comment.

Namaste</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you very much for that correction.  It&#8217;s been many, many years since encountering the word and was unable to find it.</p>
<p>The thought in the comment from the Dalai Lama, is echoed in the words of Paramahansa Yogananda:</p>
<p>&#8220;Thus we see that though the true aim of mankind is the avoidance of pain and the attainment of Bliss, yet owing to a fatal error man, through trying to avoid pain, pursues a deluded something named pleasure, mistaking it for Bliss.  That the attainment of Bliss and not pleasure is the universal and highest necessity is indirectly proved by the fact that man is never satisfied with one object of pleasure&#8230;..And so he is constantly falling into pain, even though he wishes to avoid it by the adoption of what he deems proper means.  Yet an unknown and unsatisfied craving seems ever to remain in his heart.&#8221;</p>
<p>Regarding delayed gratification.  Perhaps the words in the previous comment were not written clearly (one certainly wasn&#8217;t ;^).  Of course there can be no wisdom in delayed gratification if it thought of as an end in itself.  In such a case, it is just a formalized ritual consisting of bouts of repression.  Afterwards the desire is just as likely to be even stronger as a result of the delay.</p>
<p>The intention is not merely to pretend to be good by denial.<br />
The thought is this.  If that which prevents gnosis is the ego&#8217;s false image that we are separate and disconnected from the universe, then we enhance the experience of separation by clinging to that false image.</p>
<p>It that is taken as true, then is it not worthwhile to observe and examine and alter the ego&#8217;s influence?  And, will we not discover that the ego desires things and conditions which provide it with the sense of security, affirmation and belonging &#8212; relative to the manifest world?  (Is it not from the ego&#8217;s selfish point of view that selfish actions arise?)</p>
<p>If that is found to be the case, then Self-imposed delay of gratification can be viewed as a tool of exerting control over the ego &#8212; prior to the work of reprogramming (by replacing the false views through study, introspection and meditation).</p>
<p>Hopefully, this clarifies the previous comment.</p>
<p>Namaste</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Katinka - Spirituality</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/will-diet-renunciation/comment-page-1/#comment-589</link>
		<dc:creator>Katinka - Spirituality</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 06:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=658#comment-589</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s Spannungsbogen - and yes, it&#039;s known that successful people have a large capacity to delay gratification. For instance: the ability to slave away in college for years knowing that at the end the reward of a good job is likely. 

I wonder though: is there any true wisdom in delaying gratification - or is true wisdom knowing that gratification itself won&#039;t make you happy either? I&#039;m reminded of a video with the Dalai Lama I saw recently. He reminded us that in the west we seem to go from desire to desire: always wanting MORE. That&#039;s not likely to bring permanent happiness, is it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s Spannungsbogen &#8211; and yes, it&#8217;s known that successful people have a large capacity to delay gratification. For instance: the ability to slave away in college for years knowing that at the end the reward of a good job is likely. </p>
<p>I wonder though: is there any true wisdom in delaying gratification &#8211; or is true wisdom knowing that gratification itself won&#8217;t make you happy either? I&#8217;m reminded of a video with the Dalai Lama I saw recently. He reminded us that in the west we seem to go from desire to desire: always wanting MORE. That&#8217;s not likely to bring permanent happiness, is it?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/will-diet-renunciation/comment-page-1/#comment-585</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 23:33:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=658#comment-585</guid>
		<description>One of the first concepts I came across when looking into spiritual issues as a youth was the German concept &quot;spannesbogen, (sp?)&quot; which was described as the &quot;self-imposed delay between the desiring of an object and the reaching out to take it.&quot;  More simply, willfully delayed gratification -- the exertion of the will over the desires.

As I view it, repression of desires is not freedom, it is actually a perversely inverted enslavement to the desire.  I think (in some cases) renunciation could lead to simple repression.  That is, when the renunciation becomes an unconscious activity (perhaps through formalized ritual).

On the other hand, renunciation can also be a method to assert a temporary control over the egoic desires.

The root, from this mind, is the degree of conscious intention.  Alteration is a willful process of freeing the inner self from the demands of the ego (which conceives of itself as a separate being).  A first step in that process is that willful control.  Not so much to deny the physical world or the desires, nor to live in an artificial intermediate state, such as the poverty the article mentioned.  Rather, to consciously soften the ego over time, with the intention of coming to actually perceive that those desires are for things of a transient nature, whereas our real nature is eternal.

Thus, from the eyes, real renunciation and self-control is ultimately a process of observing and assigning more appropriate values to experiences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the first concepts I came across when looking into spiritual issues as a youth was the German concept &#8220;spannesbogen, (sp?)&#8221; which was described as the &#8220;self-imposed delay between the desiring of an object and the reaching out to take it.&#8221;  More simply, willfully delayed gratification &#8212; the exertion of the will over the desires.</p>
<p>As I view it, repression of desires is not freedom, it is actually a perversely inverted enslavement to the desire.  I think (in some cases) renunciation could lead to simple repression.  That is, when the renunciation becomes an unconscious activity (perhaps through formalized ritual).</p>
<p>On the other hand, renunciation can also be a method to assert a temporary control over the egoic desires.</p>
<p>The root, from this mind, is the degree of conscious intention.  Alteration is a willful process of freeing the inner self from the demands of the ego (which conceives of itself as a separate being).  A first step in that process is that willful control.  Not so much to deny the physical world or the desires, nor to live in an artificial intermediate state, such as the poverty the article mentioned.  Rather, to consciously soften the ego over time, with the intention of coming to actually perceive that those desires are for things of a transient nature, whereas our real nature is eternal.</p>
<p>Thus, from the eyes, real renunciation and self-control is ultimately a process of observing and assigning more appropriate values to experiences.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: spiri2al.com</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/will-diet-renunciation/comment-page-1/#comment-540</link>
		<dc:creator>spiri2al.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 07:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=658#comment-540</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Will, diet, renunciation and religion &#124; All Considering...&lt;/strong&gt;

Traditionally the main religions have advocated renunciation in one form or another. Whether it’s the fasting for Lent or the day time fast in Ramadan - lay people have been stimulated to restrain their appetites at one time in the year....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Will, diet, renunciation and religion | All Considering&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Traditionally the main religions have advocated renunciation in one form or another. Whether it’s the fasting for Lent or the day time fast in Ramadan &#8211; lay people have been stimulated to restrain their appetites at one time in the year&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alan Furth</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/will-diet-renunciation/comment-page-1/#comment-538</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Furth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 20:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=658#comment-538</guid>
		<description>I &quot;fasted&quot; once for a whole week and it was a very enriching experience. The only &quot;food&quot; I had was a clear vegetable broth prepared without any spices or salt, several supplements made out of dried spirulina and wheat grass, and an occasional fresh juice. I did experience a sort of spiritual high. In part you do feel purified and detoxified as was previously mentioned by other commenters. And there&#039;s also an element of becoming detached from food that feels quite liberating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I &#8220;fasted&#8221; once for a whole week and it was a very enriching experience. The only &#8220;food&#8221; I had was a clear vegetable broth prepared without any spices or salt, several supplements made out of dried spirulina and wheat grass, and an occasional fresh juice. I did experience a sort of spiritual high. In part you do feel purified and detoxified as was previously mentioned by other commenters. And there&#8217;s also an element of becoming detached from food that feels quite liberating.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim Clark</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/will-diet-renunciation/comment-page-1/#comment-539</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 03:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=658#comment-539</guid>
		<description>Hi Katinka, my personal experience has shown 1 day of fasting produces tremendous mental clarity for at least a week afterwards (until something shoots me down).  Basically, it clears the mind completely, and during the fast I can get much deeper in meditation much quicker.
God Bless,
Hari Om</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Katinka, my personal experience has shown 1 day of fasting produces tremendous mental clarity for at least a week afterwards (until something shoots me down).  Basically, it clears the mind completely, and during the fast I can get much deeper in meditation much quicker.<br />
God Bless,<br />
Hari Om</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Melik</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/will-diet-renunciation/comment-page-1/#comment-537</link>
		<dc:creator>David Melik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 01:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=658#comment-537</guid>
		<description>nice article... the effect during at least a few days of fasting is detoxification--as Dr. Shelton said in his books such as _Fasting Can Save Your Life_... that is not so spiritual, though if I recall correctly the texts of the Essenes said they fasted, and their name means &#039;healer&#039;....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nice article&#8230; the effect during at least a few days of fasting is detoxification&#8211;as Dr. Shelton said in his books such as _Fasting Can Save Your Life_&#8230; that is not so spiritual, though if I recall correctly the texts of the Essenes said they fasted, and their name means &#8216;healer&#8217;&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Katinka Hesselink - All Considering</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/will-diet-renunciation/comment-page-1/#comment-535</link>
		<dc:creator>Katinka Hesselink - All Considering</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 06:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=658#comment-535</guid>
		<description>What are the lasting effects then?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What are the lasting effects then?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim Clark</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/will-diet-renunciation/comment-page-1/#comment-536</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 03:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=658#comment-536</guid>
		<description>Hi Kantinka, nice article, as always.  I find fasting wonderfull, when I get the chance, it puts all the spiritual practices on a much deeper level, as long as you don&#039;t have other commitments to deal with, and as long as you break it correctly it has wonderfull lasting effects.
God Bless,
Hari Om</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Kantinka, nice article, as always.  I find fasting wonderfull, when I get the chance, it puts all the spiritual practices on a much deeper level, as long as you don&#8217;t have other commitments to deal with, and as long as you break it correctly it has wonderfull lasting effects.<br />
God Bless,<br />
Hari Om</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
