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	<title>Comments on: About the Importance of Religious Symbols</title>
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	<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/religious-symbols/</link>
	<description>Considering life, spiritual growth and more ponderings</description>
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		<title>By: Katinka - Spirituality</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/religious-symbols/comment-page-1/#comment-3331</link>
		<dc:creator>Katinka - Spirituality</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=798#comment-3331</guid>
		<description>Of course feelings change. They can be trusted as a thermometer of the situation one is in. Nothing more, nothing less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course feelings change. They can be trusted as a thermometer of the situation one is in. Nothing more, nothing less.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Bollinger</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/religious-symbols/comment-page-1/#comment-3289</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Bollinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=798#comment-3289</guid>
		<description>I love you and the efforts you make to enlighten me (us). We, the royal prerogative, are, if a label is required, are Zen and find Osho and Krishnamurti liberating. We find our bliss in nature, poetry, music, and surreal art. 
Love
Bob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love you and the efforts you make to enlighten me (us). We, the royal prerogative, are, if a label is required, are Zen and find Osho and Krishnamurti liberating. We find our bliss in nature, poetry, music, and surreal art.<br />
Love<br />
Bob</p>
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		<title>By: Darryl Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/religious-symbols/comment-page-1/#comment-3275</link>
		<dc:creator>Darryl Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:02:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=798#comment-3275</guid>
		<description>&quot;The question is, Darryl, whether a mind conditioned by it’s past can bring about equality any more than religious symbols can.&quot;

- I would say that the mind is the reason why inequality and abuse exists. Well, that and DNA. What has the intellect and feelings of Mankind brought us? War, Capitalism, slavery, the Atomic Bomb? Peace and equality do not exist - and the world is nothing if not a separated mess. 

Besides, we are  living symbols, anyway. The truth that we are is what we do and what we think and existence is showing us the reflection of who we are, and it is not a pretty picture.

As for Feelings - I maintain that they cannot be trusted because they change. The only thing I agree with Aquinas is that whatever is not constant is not real. Whatever s based on energy is not real, because without a power source, energy depletes. When I watch the movie The Matrix, I am amazed at the metaphor of energetic vampirism.
 Replace the Machine with &quot;Heaven,&quot; and the movie becomes a chilling fable of how the spirit world requires energy through consuming &quot;lower&quot; versions of itself. This perspective explains why Religion &amp; Spiirituality cannot sort this world out and why gaps and incongruencies exist in the Religious Traditions. Everything that I have - and I have studied these matters for over thirty years - points to deception. Jeez, I hate sounding like a crank and a conspiracy theorist, but there&#039;s something fishy going on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The question is, Darryl, whether a mind conditioned by it’s past can bring about equality any more than religious symbols can.&#8221;</p>
<p>- I would say that the mind is the reason why inequality and abuse exists. Well, that and DNA. What has the intellect and feelings of Mankind brought us? War, Capitalism, slavery, the Atomic Bomb? Peace and equality do not exist &#8211; and the world is nothing if not a separated mess. </p>
<p>Besides, we are  living symbols, anyway. The truth that we are is what we do and what we think and existence is showing us the reflection of who we are, and it is not a pretty picture.</p>
<p>As for Feelings &#8211; I maintain that they cannot be trusted because they change. The only thing I agree with Aquinas is that whatever is not constant is not real. Whatever s based on energy is not real, because without a power source, energy depletes. When I watch the movie The Matrix, I am amazed at the metaphor of energetic vampirism.<br />
 Replace the Machine with &#8220;Heaven,&#8221; and the movie becomes a chilling fable of how the spirit world requires energy through consuming &#8220;lower&#8221; versions of itself. This perspective explains why Religion &amp; Spiirituality cannot sort this world out and why gaps and incongruencies exist in the Religious Traditions. Everything that I have &#8211; and I have studied these matters for over thirty years &#8211; points to deception. Jeez, I hate sounding like a crank and a conspiracy theorist, but there&#8217;s something fishy going on.</p>
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		<title>By: Nita</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/religious-symbols/comment-page-1/#comment-2718</link>
		<dc:creator>Nita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 12:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=798#comment-2718</guid>
		<description>Certain questions have clear answers, but others do not. I too know that there are certain questions for which there are no complete answers, but one has to keep exploring and searching and one can find completeness and satisfaction in this. Certain questions do not have one answer and if one accepts one answer it&#039;s like closing the door to knowledge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Certain questions have clear answers, but others do not. I too know that there are certain questions for which there are no complete answers, but one has to keep exploring and searching and one can find completeness and satisfaction in this. Certain questions do not have one answer and if one accepts one answer it&#8217;s like closing the door to knowledge.</p>
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		<title>By: katinka</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/religious-symbols/comment-page-1/#comment-2714</link>
		<dc:creator>katinka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=798#comment-2714</guid>
		<description>Emotions are part of the truth of any situation. Unless faced they will cause problems elsewhere. As Ashish rightly says: the Ultimate consists of all the aspects of the human being: physical, emotional, mental, spiritual and divine (my favorite way to sum them up, but there are others). 

To ignore the emotional is to ignore a vital aspect of our experienced reality. It just doesn&#039;t work. 

To make it very practical: try ignoring the emotions of people you are trying to help - you will only reap suffering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emotions are part of the truth of any situation. Unless faced they will cause problems elsewhere. As Ashish rightly says: the Ultimate consists of all the aspects of the human being: physical, emotional, mental, spiritual and divine (my favorite way to sum them up, but there are others). </p>
<p>To ignore the emotional is to ignore a vital aspect of our experienced reality. It just doesn&#8217;t work. </p>
<p>To make it very practical: try ignoring the emotions of people you are trying to help &#8211; you will only reap suffering.</p>
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		<title>By: katinka</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/religious-symbols/comment-page-1/#comment-2713</link>
		<dc:creator>katinka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=798#comment-2713</guid>
		<description>The question is, Darryl, whether a mind conditioned by it&#039;s past can bring about equality any more than religious symbols can. Seems to me that no method has yet produced peace on earth - however worthy a goal that may be. 

I&#039;m not suggesting it should not be attempted, don&#039;t get me wrong. 

I&#039;m merely saying that those who want to understand the wisdom religion underlying all religions need to meditate on the symbols without being limited by their theological meanings. 

For those who don&#039;t want to understand all that and just want to change the world I say: Go right ahead. Please do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question is, Darryl, whether a mind conditioned by it&#8217;s past can bring about equality any more than religious symbols can. Seems to me that no method has yet produced peace on earth &#8211; however worthy a goal that may be. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not suggesting it should not be attempted, don&#8217;t get me wrong. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m merely saying that those who want to understand the wisdom religion underlying all religions need to meditate on the symbols without being limited by their theological meanings. </p>
<p>For those who don&#8217;t want to understand all that and just want to change the world I say: Go right ahead. Please do.</p>
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		<title>By: Darryl Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/religious-symbols/comment-page-1/#comment-2671</link>
		<dc:creator>Darryl Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=798#comment-2671</guid>
		<description>Another excellent blog, Katinka, that prompts a few notes:

I disagree with your opinion that the contradictions in ancient scriptures are &quot;to be accepted and meditated upon.&quot; The whole problem with metaphysics is its lack of a unifying principle. Oh, and outright fraud and &quot;enlightened&quot; self-interest. When I see a conflicting opinion in the scriptures of any kind - I throw it all out. Deception is afoot, and the Masters were not above using deception to acquire ill-gotten energy from their Slaves (to be a Master, you need Slaves, right?) in the form of prayers from adoring supplicants. 

The multidimensional nature of any symbol is not based on knowledge acquired by the mind. Symbols actually have a &#039;life&#039; that&#039;s just as valid as ours. Symbols are always given to us, Fishers of Men cast them as lures for the unwary. 

Symbol and the mind exist independently of each other. The mind does form a relationship with the symbol, where the symbol forms a copy of itself (relationship) within our essence, but the symbol would exist without a mind to relate to it. Just like the existence of mathematical law
compared to the mathematics that the limited human mind can process.
It would be a mistake to consider what human beings have accomplished in mathematics AS THE SAME Mathematics that exists in its Quantum Entirety within and without all of Time and Space. We do not know what exists outside our knowledge of Mathematics. Yet, those unknown symbols exist. 

Symbols are not created by the mind, although we have the ability to  project and relate to symbols thru the mind, in the vain attempt to describe and associate the reality that surrounds us.

The Use of Religious Symbols can lead to curious places, as demonstrated in this quote from Alice Bailey writing about the symbolical significance of the Holocaust:
&#039;Today the law of racial karma is working and the Jews are paying the price, factually and symbolically...&quot;

On the improbable mechanics of Karma, I will leave that aside for now, but this quote reveals that even the brilliance of Post-Theosophical Tradition as represented by Alice Bailey - can be occluded by the use of symbols seeking to justify suffering of any kind. With religious symbols, Inquisitions, genocide, pogroms and massacres appear. 

Knowledge and emotions are the worse methodologies for understanding one&#039;s place in reality. For example, knowledge and emotions were the factors that led to the design and use of the Atomic Bomb. Revenge and Knowledge rising together as the Living Symbol of Evil. The Taoists cry, &quot;Abandon Knowledge.&quot; We would do well to listen to Laotsu when he says:

 &#039;The Tao abides in non-action,
Yet nothing is left undone.
If kings and lords observed this,
The ten thousand things would develop naturally.
If they still desired to act,
They would return to the simplicity of formless substance.
Without form there is no desire.
Without desire there is tranquillity.
In this way all things would be at peace.&#039;

I propose a post-metaphysical approach to Religious symbolism which in part features the total rejection of the lines of hermeneutical inquiry, and the total rejection of the notion that the mind can provide any answers to the question of Ultimate Reality, or else it would have done so already. It is unfortunate that religious symbols cannot provide any relief of the massive suffering that occurs every day in this world. 

What do we do instead of seeking Visions of Nirvana? We stop the mind and work towards ways to bring equality to all in this world. Then we can produce a Nirvana on Earth, which is something religious symbolism has utterly failed to accomplish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another excellent blog, Katinka, that prompts a few notes:</p>
<p>I disagree with your opinion that the contradictions in ancient scriptures are &#8220;to be accepted and meditated upon.&#8221; The whole problem with metaphysics is its lack of a unifying principle. Oh, and outright fraud and &#8220;enlightened&#8221; self-interest. When I see a conflicting opinion in the scriptures of any kind &#8211; I throw it all out. Deception is afoot, and the Masters were not above using deception to acquire ill-gotten energy from their Slaves (to be a Master, you need Slaves, right?) in the form of prayers from adoring supplicants. </p>
<p>The multidimensional nature of any symbol is not based on knowledge acquired by the mind. Symbols actually have a &#8216;life&#8217; that&#8217;s just as valid as ours. Symbols are always given to us, Fishers of Men cast them as lures for the unwary. </p>
<p>Symbol and the mind exist independently of each other. The mind does form a relationship with the symbol, where the symbol forms a copy of itself (relationship) within our essence, but the symbol would exist without a mind to relate to it. Just like the existence of mathematical law<br />
compared to the mathematics that the limited human mind can process.<br />
It would be a mistake to consider what human beings have accomplished in mathematics AS THE SAME Mathematics that exists in its Quantum Entirety within and without all of Time and Space. We do not know what exists outside our knowledge of Mathematics. Yet, those unknown symbols exist. </p>
<p>Symbols are not created by the mind, although we have the ability to  project and relate to symbols thru the mind, in the vain attempt to describe and associate the reality that surrounds us.</p>
<p>The Use of Religious Symbols can lead to curious places, as demonstrated in this quote from Alice Bailey writing about the symbolical significance of the Holocaust:<br />
&#8216;Today the law of racial karma is working and the Jews are paying the price, factually and symbolically&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>On the improbable mechanics of Karma, I will leave that aside for now, but this quote reveals that even the brilliance of Post-Theosophical Tradition as represented by Alice Bailey &#8211; can be occluded by the use of symbols seeking to justify suffering of any kind. With religious symbols, Inquisitions, genocide, pogroms and massacres appear. </p>
<p>Knowledge and emotions are the worse methodologies for understanding one&#8217;s place in reality. For example, knowledge and emotions were the factors that led to the design and use of the Atomic Bomb. Revenge and Knowledge rising together as the Living Symbol of Evil. The Taoists cry, &#8220;Abandon Knowledge.&#8221; We would do well to listen to Laotsu when he says:</p>
<p> &#8216;The Tao abides in non-action,<br />
Yet nothing is left undone.<br />
If kings and lords observed this,<br />
The ten thousand things would develop naturally.<br />
If they still desired to act,<br />
They would return to the simplicity of formless substance.<br />
Without form there is no desire.<br />
Without desire there is tranquillity.<br />
In this way all things would be at peace.&#8217;</p>
<p>I propose a post-metaphysical approach to Religious symbolism which in part features the total rejection of the lines of hermeneutical inquiry, and the total rejection of the notion that the mind can provide any answers to the question of Ultimate Reality, or else it would have done so already. It is unfortunate that religious symbols cannot provide any relief of the massive suffering that occurs every day in this world. </p>
<p>What do we do instead of seeking Visions of Nirvana? We stop the mind and work towards ways to bring equality to all in this world. Then we can produce a Nirvana on Earth, which is something religious symbolism has utterly failed to accomplish.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Glasson</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/religious-symbols/comment-page-1/#comment-2670</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Glasson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=798#comment-2670</guid>
		<description>&quot;...ultimately the truth of symbols is to be primarily experienced – and any interpretation in words is a lesser reflection.&quot; - The occult philosophy of Dyzan - which means  Knowledge, through meditation - is cast in metaphor, a form of symbolism. The bridge between the unseen subjective and the seeing objective, between intuition and intellect, has the surest foundation in symbolism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;ultimately the truth of symbols is to be primarily experienced – and any interpretation in words is a lesser reflection.&#8221; &#8211; The occult philosophy of Dyzan &#8211; which means  Knowledge, through meditation &#8211; is cast in metaphor, a form of symbolism. The bridge between the unseen subjective and the seeing objective, between intuition and intellect, has the surest foundation in symbolism.</p>
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