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	<title>Comments on: Limits to quantum mechanics and spiritual freedom</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/limits-to-quantum-mechanics/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/limits-to-quantum-mechanics/</link>
	<description>Considering life, spiritual growth and more ponderings</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:34:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Chris Birkbeck</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/limits-to-quantum-mechanics/comment-page-1/#comment-36786</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Birkbeck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Feb 2011 14:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=670#comment-36786</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0061233501?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=all-considering-20&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=390957&amp;creativeASIN=0061233501&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Finding Darwin&#039;s God: A Scientist&#039;s Search for Common Ground Between God and Evolution (P.S.)&lt;/a&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=all-considering-20&amp;l=as2&amp;o=1&amp;a=0061233501&quot; width=&quot;1&quot; height=&quot;1&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; style=&quot;border:none !important; margin:0px !important;&quot; /&gt; is a very good read that closely relates to the topic you posted. I highly recommend it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0061233501?ie=UTF8&#038;tag=all-considering-20&#038;linkCode=as2&#038;camp=1789&#038;creative=390957&#038;creativeASIN=0061233501" rel="nofollow">Finding Darwin&#8217;s God: A Scientist&#8217;s Search for Common Ground Between God and Evolution (P.S.)</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=all-considering-20&#038;l=as2&#038;o=1&#038;a=0061233501" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" /> is a very good read that closely relates to the topic you posted. I highly recommend it.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/limits-to-quantum-mechanics/comment-page-1/#comment-1550</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=670#comment-1550</guid>
		<description>As for &#039;breaking free from the laws of nature,&#039; the mid-part of Talbott&#039;s Holographic Universe provides a number of graphic descriptions of  documented phenomena that do exactly that. I am reminded that the gates to enlightenment are guarded by the two &#039;fearsome&#039; images: paradox and confusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for &#8216;breaking free from the laws of nature,&#8217; the mid-part of Talbott&#8217;s Holographic Universe provides a number of graphic descriptions of  documented phenomena that do exactly that. I am reminded that the gates to enlightenment are guarded by the two &#8216;fearsome&#8217; images: paradox and confusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Evolution and Creation: does quantum mechanics solve all that? &#171; Theosophist</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/limits-to-quantum-mechanics/comment-page-1/#comment-1031</link>
		<dc:creator>Evolution and Creation: does quantum mechanics solve all that? &#171; Theosophist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 17:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=670#comment-1031</guid>
		<description>[...] But he does think that the option is right there before our eyes in quantum physics. However, in quantum physics electrons ARE NOT free. Not in ordinary chemistry anyhow. Just like us, electrons are limited by their [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] But he does think that the option is right there before our eyes in quantum physics. However, in quantum physics electrons ARE NOT free. Not in ordinary chemistry anyhow. Just like us, electrons are limited by their [...]</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/limits-to-quantum-mechanics/comment-page-1/#comment-578</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 08:11:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=670#comment-578</guid>
		<description>Hi Brad,

Goswami does go into more complicated physical experiments. There&#039;s one involving time that seems very promising for instance. However, since I have only his word on that one, I haven&#039;t discussed it here. It&#039;s precisely because Schroedinger&#039;s cat is so famous, and I&#039;ve actually learned about it in college, that I feel safe using it as an example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Brad,</p>
<p>Goswami does go into more complicated physical experiments. There&#8217;s one involving time that seems very promising for instance. However, since I have only his word on that one, I haven&#8217;t discussed it here. It&#8217;s precisely because Schroedinger&#8217;s cat is so famous, and I&#8217;ve actually learned about it in college, that I feel safe using it as an example.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/limits-to-quantum-mechanics/comment-page-1/#comment-551</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 04:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=670#comment-551</guid>
		<description>K,
As you describe, visualization and the law of attraction seems to be constrained within certain bounds.

Regarding those constraints.  They may be due to causes outside the realm of human consciousness.
Alternately -- as each of us &quot;represents&quot; or &quot;contains&quot; a spark of divine essence -- perhaps the constraining &quot;laws&quot; of physical manifestation exist due to the collective &quot;agreement&quot; upon the nature of that manifestation.

That later view tends to approach the chicken and egg problem.  However, if only the most fundamental Laws are actual constraints, then (hypothetically) at least some physical constraints could be the result of collective &quot;agreement,&quot; an agreement which might slowly alter over time.

This might also tie into the matter of individual versus collective karma.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>K,<br />
As you describe, visualization and the law of attraction seems to be constrained within certain bounds.</p>
<p>Regarding those constraints.  They may be due to causes outside the realm of human consciousness.<br />
Alternately &#8212; as each of us &#8220;represents&#8221; or &#8220;contains&#8221; a spark of divine essence &#8212; perhaps the constraining &#8220;laws&#8221; of physical manifestation exist due to the collective &#8220;agreement&#8221; upon the nature of that manifestation.</p>
<p>That later view tends to approach the chicken and egg problem.  However, if only the most fundamental Laws are actual constraints, then (hypothetically) at least some physical constraints could be the result of collective &#8220;agreement,&#8221; an agreement which might slowly alter over time.</p>
<p>This might also tie into the matter of individual versus collective karma.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/limits-to-quantum-mechanics/comment-page-1/#comment-552</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 03:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=670#comment-552</guid>
		<description>Sorry, More to the topic.  For quantum physics, the book &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0387972625?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=katihessnet-20&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=390957&amp;creativeASIN=0387972625&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Conscious Universe: Part and Whole in Modern Physical Theory&lt;/a&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=katihessnet-20&amp;l=as2&amp;o=1&amp;a=0387972625&quot; width=&quot;1&quot; height=&quot;1&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; style=&quot;border:none !important; margin:0px !important;&quot; /&gt;&quot; by Menas Kafatos and Robert Nadeau is very good.

It goes well beyond the &quot;Two slit&quot; experiments and Schrödinger&#039;s Cat.  Somewhat technical term, but written for an educated layperson.  It contains detailed discussions of the implications of non-locality and complementarity among other things.  Also a logical presentation of why the principle of complementarity implies that it is not possible for science, or physical observation of any type, to get to the ultimate reality.  (Thus, the need for the mystic).

Short of the book, one might want to look into Bell&#039;s Theorem and especially the Aspect Experiments.  The later, having demonstrated that non-locality is a fact of nature.
The implication being that a unity of existence (all existence as a single whole) is a fact of nature.

Cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, More to the topic.  For quantum physics, the book &#8220;<a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0387972625?ie=UTF8&#038;tag=katihessnet-20&#038;linkCode=as2&#038;camp=1789&#038;creative=390957&#038;creativeASIN=0387972625" rel="nofollow">The Conscious Universe: Part and Whole in Modern Physical Theory</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=katihessnet-20&#038;l=as2&#038;o=1&#038;a=0387972625" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" />&#8221; by Menas Kafatos and Robert Nadeau is very good.</p>
<p>It goes well beyond the &#8220;Two slit&#8221; experiments and Schrödinger&#8217;s Cat.  Somewhat technical term, but written for an educated layperson.  It contains detailed discussions of the implications of non-locality and complementarity among other things.  Also a logical presentation of why the principle of complementarity implies that it is not possible for science, or physical observation of any type, to get to the ultimate reality.  (Thus, the need for the mystic).</p>
<p>Short of the book, one might want to look into Bell&#8217;s Theorem and especially the Aspect Experiments.  The later, having demonstrated that non-locality is a fact of nature.<br />
The implication being that a unity of existence (all existence as a single whole) is a fact of nature.</p>
<p>Cheers</p>
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		<title>By: David Chernoff</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/limits-to-quantum-mechanics/comment-page-1/#comment-548</link>
		<dc:creator>David Chernoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 05:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=670#comment-548</guid>
		<description>We are first and foremost spiritual beings living this physical experience and as a result, we are constrained by the limitations of this physical universe in which we live and operate. Our manifestations may require meditation, but they cannot be fulfilled without conscious action, for that is what is required of us in this world.

And yes I would agree with you...we are constrained, but not truly by the limitations placed on us by the world around us, but by those placed on ourselves by ourselves.
Excellent Post, thank you for sharing!
Thanks,
David
www.DavidChernoff.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are first and foremost spiritual beings living this physical experience and as a result, we are constrained by the limitations of this physical universe in which we live and operate. Our manifestations may require meditation, but they cannot be fulfilled without conscious action, for that is what is required of us in this world.</p>
<p>And yes I would agree with you&#8230;we are constrained, but not truly by the limitations placed on us by the world around us, but by those placed on ourselves by ourselves.<br />
Excellent Post, thank you for sharing!<br />
Thanks,<br />
David<br />
<a href="http://www.DavidChernoff.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.DavidChernoff.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: katinka - spiritual</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/limits-to-quantum-mechanics/comment-page-1/#comment-550</link>
		<dc:creator>katinka - spiritual</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 07:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=670#comment-550</guid>
		<description>Hi,

You actually picked up on my point, instead of his: I think there are limits to what we can accomplish (and should want to accomplish) through meditation - and that&#039;s perhaps Goswami&#039;s idea too, but he&#039;s talking not to me, but to people who think they can accomplish anything just by visualizing it (you know, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.allconsidering.com/tag/the-secret/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Secret, the Law of Attraction&lt;/a&gt; and all that - in it&#039;s most simple form).

And to them Goswami is saying - no, that won&#039;t work unless you meditate.

I&#039;m saying - even if you do meditate, you should not expect to overrule the laws of physics. That was my whole point about the carbon atom. Sorry it did not come across too well. So I agree with you, I&#039;m not sure how Goswami would answer your question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>You actually picked up on my point, instead of his: I think there are limits to what we can accomplish (and should want to accomplish) through meditation &#8211; and that&#8217;s perhaps Goswami&#8217;s idea too, but he&#8217;s talking not to me, but to people who think they can accomplish anything just by visualizing it (you know, <a href="http://www.allconsidering.com/tag/the-secret/" rel="nofollow">The Secret, the Law of Attraction</a> and all that &#8211; in it&#8217;s most simple form).</p>
<p>And to them Goswami is saying &#8211; no, that won&#8217;t work unless you meditate.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m saying &#8211; even if you do meditate, you should not expect to overrule the laws of physics. That was my whole point about the carbon atom. Sorry it did not come across too well. So I agree with you, I&#8217;m not sure how Goswami would answer your question.</p>
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		<title>By: Darwin Stephenson</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2009/limits-to-quantum-mechanics/comment-page-1/#comment-549</link>
		<dc:creator>Darwin Stephenson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 00:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=670#comment-549</guid>
		<description>First of all, nice post. I&#039;m a big fan of weaving science and spirit to derive meaning. I&#039;l definitely be picking up that book. I also recommend Darwin&#039;s Dangerous idea.

So am I to understand that if we meditate first we can break free from the constraints that are akin to the limited carbon orbits? Or that without first meditating that it isn&#039;t even possible to create a new reality.

I also have to ask, &quot;Why?&quot;

Why would the Universe be designed in such a way that individual beings could break free of the laws of nature? It seems to me that the Universe in which we live represents the reality in which we are constrained. Breaking free from our constraints would then represent a path that has a purpose. Is there an example in nature that reveals that breaking free from the laws of nature results in a benefit that otherwise wouldn&#039;t be possible?

I hope this is received in the friendly spirit it is intended. I love the topic and look forward to exploring it further.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all, nice post. I&#8217;m a big fan of weaving science and spirit to derive meaning. I&#8217;l definitely be picking up that book. I also recommend Darwin&#8217;s Dangerous idea.</p>
<p>So am I to understand that if we meditate first we can break free from the constraints that are akin to the limited carbon orbits? Or that without first meditating that it isn&#8217;t even possible to create a new reality.</p>
<p>I also have to ask, &#8220;Why?&#8221;</p>
<p>Why would the Universe be designed in such a way that individual beings could break free of the laws of nature? It seems to me that the Universe in which we live represents the reality in which we are constrained. Breaking free from our constraints would then represent a path that has a purpose. Is there an example in nature that reveals that breaking free from the laws of nature results in a benefit that otherwise wouldn&#8217;t be possible?</p>
<p>I hope this is received in the friendly spirit it is intended. I love the topic and look forward to exploring it further.</p>
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