As in Platonism I do not think desire is more fundamental than thought, but the ‘principles in man’ are all called levels of spirit-soul–or grouped into sheaths or bases–and the higher 3 consciousnesses of the latter are grouped into undifferentiated consciousness in a dualism or even monism. Then desire has to be under control of the will because that is under control of divine will–one’s own and presumably that of the Logos, i.e. Divine Monad… or as you may prefer to say, Adi-Buddha. (?) Of course that brings us to the topic of ‘divine desire.’ First of all it may be to create reality to experience ‘itself’ as non-divine beings but then it is to be selfless and for the beings to also be selfless. I know not what Vajrayana completely says about desire, but as a Mahayana person who is trying to be a Bodhisattva desire seems either problematic or mostly irrelevant compared to the logical reasoning that has some control over it all.

Desire has a bad name in certain spiritual circles – but in others it’s hailed as the fundamental source of all spiritual growth….

Christopher – sure, words are always an issue. I’m no regular Zen meditator, so perhaps I’m not one to talk on the subject in the first place.

Regarding the role of Zen in desire, perhaps its the same as “effort”? It is essential: without effort, practice is sloppy and deluded.

Words are coarse, inadequate tools in any language. They work well for familiar, common experiences. If we happen to have had the experience, we might be able to comprehend the words used. But it is a mistake to think that words convey meaning.

Most people who regularly practice zazen would have some idea of what “right effort” means; but these words convey nothing to someone without that life-experience.

This is a subject that has definately been on my mind from time to time. Categorizing desire as an emotion seems to work. The Law of Attraction, as well as some other positive thinking works often point out that getting your emotions behind the things you want is the key to bringing them to you. Having worked with affirmations for over 20 years I can truthfully say that the emotions are more powerful than any higher mental sort of chosing. This also has an end result that often will make you think and realize what your true desires are.

For instance, perhaps your family always expected you to go to West Point and you have it in your list of affirmations – I’m going to go to West Point. But in your heart, you know you do not want that life, you don’t have that visceral desire. The Universe will create circumstances that keep you from West Point, and push you in the direction of your true desire – maybe writing or being a healer. Eventually, you’ll look at that affirmation one morning and think “You know, I don’t really WANT to go to West Point – I like my life as a healer” That’s a sort of extreme example, but I’m just trying to illustrate my point.

I also have to agree that from the first time I was exposed to that heirarchy of needs I’ve had my doubts about it. In my own life, there have been times when having food and a roof over my head was a matter of constant struggle. However, even while I was struggling to achieve a basic material security, I still held on to my desire for a higher spirituality and strove to be the kind of person I wanted to be as far as honor, honesty, and living up to my own standards. Some people may toss all that aside just to get a meal, but I never would. That may not be true for everyone, but I think it may be far more true than someone who never had that struggle might realize.

Thank you, as always, for a thought provoking post.

I wonder whether what they really mean is that wanting it TOO much is a hindrance – or that any desire at all should be left behind. Or in other words: isn’t the energy that keeps us moving (which is implied in the above definition of desire) necessary for any attainment, including Nirvana and Adeptship?

I can’t really talk about how it is at such levels of being – I do know that this energy is such an essential part of life, that I can’t imagine it any different. For ordinary people, surely, the only difference between stagnation and progress is this energy that keeps us at this path – whether it’s channeled through daily meditation, contemplation, study or work for others.