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	<title>Comments on: On being authentic &#8211; spiritual fiction?</title>
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	<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2008/authentic-spiritual-creativity/</link>
	<description>Considering life, spiritual growth and more ponderings</description>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2008/authentic-spiritual-creativity/comment-page-1/#comment-111</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:11:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=226#comment-111</guid>
		<description>There is a whole 2,000-year-old history of Christian meditation. In the Catholic tradition, meditation forms part of &quot;contemplative prayer&quot;. I wrote a little booklet on this subject, but unfortunately it is only available at Amazon in the U.S. It is called Brief History of Contemplative Prayer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a whole 2,000-year-old history of Christian meditation. In the Catholic tradition, meditation forms part of &#8220;contemplative prayer&#8221;. I wrote a little booklet on this subject, but unfortunately it is only available at Amazon in the U.S. It is called Brief History of Contemplative Prayer.</p>
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		<title>By: Katinka Hesselink - All Considering</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2008/authentic-spiritual-creativity/comment-page-1/#comment-110</link>
		<dc:creator>Katinka Hesselink - All Considering</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=226#comment-110</guid>
		<description>As for what I was reading... not something like that - more of a modern interpretation of the Thomas Gospel, from the perspective or breathing meditation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for what I was reading&#8230; not something like that &#8211; more of a modern interpretation of the Thomas Gospel, from the perspective or breathing meditation.</p>
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		<title>By: Katinka Hesselink - All Considering</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2008/authentic-spiritual-creativity/comment-page-1/#comment-109</link>
		<dc:creator>Katinka Hesselink - All Considering</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=226#comment-109</guid>
		<description>Good question. I did not mean all Wiccans read her work. But of those that do, I&#039;ve been told many take it seriously, whether as literal truth or not. My informants mostly knew Dutch wiccans, but had studied the literature on the tradition more widely.

Of course paganism is a far wider field than Wicca. Modern wicca claims to be based on older traditions, but - again - many don&#039;t take this literally, but more as a kind of modern myth. A bit like roleplaying. It&#039;s a hard approach to take, and not one I can relate to. Personally I feel the evidence is pretty clear that there is more of a relationship between the early 20th century founders of wicca and western esoteric streams like Golden Dawn than with a somehow survived family tradition of witches.

I believe that wiccans - the ones I know a glimmering of - take whatever mythology appeals to them and do their ritual work based on that, whether they believe in the literal truth of that mythology or not. Bradley&#039;s work is as suitable for that as many myths that actually do go back to the middle ages or before. Especially since she was obviously well read in the subject.

But the perspective of a truth seeker is different: we want to be part of traditions only in so far as they ARE true. This is a different, more intellectual approach. For us the challenge is to try and imagine an approach that starts with experience first - then it no longer matters so much whether the stories played out are true. That is, I believe, what many wiccans do. And why should they read more? One doesn&#039;t need to read to be able to dress up, light candles and say impressive words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good question. I did not mean all Wiccans read her work. But of those that do, I&#8217;ve been told many take it seriously, whether as literal truth or not. My informants mostly knew Dutch wiccans, but had studied the literature on the tradition more widely.</p>
<p>Of course paganism is a far wider field than Wicca. Modern wicca claims to be based on older traditions, but &#8211; again &#8211; many don&#8217;t take this literally, but more as a kind of modern myth. A bit like roleplaying. It&#8217;s a hard approach to take, and not one I can relate to. Personally I feel the evidence is pretty clear that there is more of a relationship between the early 20th century founders of wicca and western esoteric streams like Golden Dawn than with a somehow survived family tradition of witches.</p>
<p>I believe that wiccans &#8211; the ones I know a glimmering of &#8211; take whatever mythology appeals to them and do their ritual work based on that, whether they believe in the literal truth of that mythology or not. Bradley&#8217;s work is as suitable for that as many myths that actually do go back to the middle ages or before. Especially since she was obviously well read in the subject.</p>
<p>But the perspective of a truth seeker is different: we want to be part of traditions only in so far as they ARE true. This is a different, more intellectual approach. For us the challenge is to try and imagine an approach that starts with experience first &#8211; then it no longer matters so much whether the stories played out are true. That is, I believe, what many wiccans do. And why should they read more? One doesn&#8217;t need to read to be able to dress up, light candles and say impressive words.</p>
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		<title>By: David Chmelik</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2008/authentic-spiritual-creativity/comment-page-1/#comment-108</link>
		<dc:creator>David Chmelik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:05:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=226#comment-108</guid>
		<description>I wonder what Christian meditation book(s) you are reading... _Cloud_of_Unknowing_ and its sequels... _The_Practice_of_the_Presence_of_God_ and its sequel(s) (or the great works by the founders of that author&#039;s order?)  The former are anonymous and the latter are from a virtuous person... I know not if Jakob Boehme was completely, but HPB spoke highly of his knowledge.

Did you mean all Wiccans take one of the 3 approaches above, or some may take such approaches?  (because of diversity most probably have not read MZB.)  I know various Wiccans, but also a Druidess and other pagans/heathens.  The MZB books mentioned are Celtic-based, but &#039;Wicca&#039; seems like a spelling of the old Anglo-Saxon &#039;Wicche,&#039; etc., and I know no Celtic equivalents, but as a name of a religion there are similar and more specific ones in other languages.  My Wiccan friend who defined &#039;esoteric&#039; for me was into much esoterism; the best of which seems ancient to Renaissance sources and Theosophy, but I am unsure if (orthodox) Wicca is fully based on those or has modern inventions besides Golden Dawn.  That was between Theosophy and Wicca but has more of interest to me except perhaps post-Hellenismos ideas (if GD even mentions Hermes or just Thoth; I forgot) that maybe only Wicca references more: primary sources (mythology and other general folklore) are more interesting or probably should be studied before it or at the start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what Christian meditation book(s) you are reading&#8230; _Cloud_of_Unknowing_ and its sequels&#8230; _The_Practice_of_the_Presence_of_God_ and its sequel(s) (or the great works by the founders of that author&#8217;s order?)  The former are anonymous and the latter are from a virtuous person&#8230; I know not if Jakob Boehme was completely, but HPB spoke highly of his knowledge.</p>
<p>Did you mean all Wiccans take one of the 3 approaches above, or some may take such approaches?  (because of diversity most probably have not read MZB.)  I know various Wiccans, but also a Druidess and other pagans/heathens.  The MZB books mentioned are Celtic-based, but &#8216;Wicca&#8217; seems like a spelling of the old Anglo-Saxon &#8216;Wicche,&#8217; etc., and I know no Celtic equivalents, but as a name of a religion there are similar and more specific ones in other languages.  My Wiccan friend who defined &#8216;esoteric&#8217; for me was into much esoterism; the best of which seems ancient to Renaissance sources and Theosophy, but I am unsure if (orthodox) Wicca is fully based on those or has modern inventions besides Golden Dawn.  That was between Theosophy and Wicca but has more of interest to me except perhaps post-Hellenismos ideas (if GD even mentions Hermes or just Thoth; I forgot) that maybe only Wicca references more: primary sources (mythology and other general folklore) are more interesting or probably should be studied before it or at the start.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.allconsidering.com/2008/authentic-spiritual-creativity/comment-page-1/#comment-107</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 23:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allconsidering.com/?p=226#comment-107</guid>
		<description>I have visited Spiritual mediums (the ones that do it for &#039;free&#039; at church) and commercial mediums.

I have never found a Spiritual medium who has channeled an image of &#039;Heaven&#039; - but a few commercial mediums who have.

Sometimes people pay to receive their truth

henry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have visited Spiritual mediums (the ones that do it for &#8216;free&#8217; at church) and commercial mediums.</p>
<p>I have never found a Spiritual medium who has channeled an image of &#8216;Heaven&#8217; &#8211; but a few commercial mediums who have.</p>
<p>Sometimes people pay to receive their truth</p>
<p>henry</p>
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